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Make Math Moments Academy Forums Mini-Course Reflections The Concept Holding Your Students Back Lesson 5-3: Notice & Name – Absolute vs. Relative Thinking – Discussion

  • Lesson 5-3: Notice & Name – Absolute vs. Relative Thinking – Discussion

    Posted by Jon on December 6, 2019 at 6:20 am

    Describe absolute thinking and relative thinking in your own words. What are key characteristics you want to keep your eyes open for to determine which type of thinking your students are using in your classroom?

    Share your reflection below along with any wonders you still have.

    Kyle Pearce replied 8 months, 2 weeks ago 21 Members · 27 Replies
  • 27 Replies
  • Laura Kaplan

    Member
    January 9, 2020 at 7:33 pm

    I’d like to know what bank James uses. $14 a month in interest?!?

    • Kyle Pearce

      Administrator
      January 11, 2020 at 11:38 am

      Hahaha! I was wondering how long we’d go before someone commented on that!!! Extreme examples, I know 🙂

  • marianne aamodt

    Member
    July 16, 2020 at 7:33 pm

    Absolute thinking is addition and subtraction.

    Mulitplicative thinking is when you compare an attribute such as volume of two objects.

    If kids are thinking multiplicatively, you’d notice them perhaps using repeated addition or subtraction. Maybe they’d be using the words “times”, “groups of”, “sharing”” or ” divided by”.

    I, too, would like to find an investment with such great interest!

  • Christine McLaughlin

    Member
    October 28, 2020 at 10:22 pm

    Absolute thinking involves addition and subtraction while relative thinking uses multiplication and division.

    I’ll invest in the Bank of Jon and Kyle! 🙂

    • Kyle Pearce

      Administrator
      November 6, 2020 at 6:21 am

      Ha! Love it 🙂

  • Jeanette Cox

    Member
    November 1, 2020 at 2:50 pm

    Absolute thinking is looking only at the numbers. Like a cup of coffee cost $1.00 and then it was changed to $2.00. The absolute change is the difference between the two prices or $1.dollar. However, if we look at the relative cost of the increase it would require us to look at $1.00/$1.00 or 1 whole = 100% increase in price.

    • Kyle Pearce

      Administrator
      November 6, 2020 at 6:21 am

      Super clear explanation!

  • Erin Wahler-Cleveland

    Member
    November 8, 2020 at 9:03 pm

    Additive thinking describes how much a quantity changed by adding or subtracting another quantity. Multiplicative thinking describes how much a quanitity change by sarting with the quantity and making all changes relative to it.

  • Krista-Lynne Edwards

    Member
    November 9, 2020 at 10:42 pm

    Additive thinking is based on addition and subtraction while multiplicative thinking is based on multiplication and division.

    Students who are trying to make the leap to multiplicative thinking might being trying to use repeated addition or subtraction. I find many students struggle with breaking away from just additive thinking and they want to stay with addition as it is a comfort zone for them.

  • Aaron Davis

    Member
    November 13, 2020 at 12:09 pm

    With relative thinking there is a relationship between two objects or sets and there is an exponential growth (or decrease) in a particular attribute they both share.

    With additive thinking, there is a difference in a number of items or units when comparing two groups. The difference involves subtraction.

  • Brent Sturtevant

    Member
    November 17, 2020 at 1:32 pm

    Instead of writing more I would just say the best example is the Coffee cup pricing that Jeanette used. It is perfect. It demonstrates how one can look at price change in both manners.

  • John Sasko

    Member
    December 1, 2020 at 11:27 am

    Absolute thinking results in a quantity (either more or less) that stands on its own – it is absolute. It needs no reference to another quantity or value. (It can be expressed using the language of addition or subtraction).

    Relative thinking results in a relationship to describe one quantity in reference to another quantity. It requires a reference to another quantity or value. It can be expresses using the language (and symbolic notation) of division or multiplication.

    I enjoyed the sorting activity. This transition from additive to multiplicative thinking is such a critical, and fragile one for students. This shows up so often in grades 5 and 6 when students are reading a table and not able (yet) to read the table in both directions. When they look vertically (if headings are at top), they’ll say that “it is going up by 1.” I’ve had to show them to read the relationship of the horizontal cells. The number of miles is 8 times greater than the number of minutes, for example.

  • Nicole Jackson

    Member
    December 19, 2020 at 1:36 pm

    Using a measure of unit as a reference point to describe how one quantity is greater than or less than another is additive thinking.

    Using multiplication or fractional language to describe how one quantity relates to another quantity is multiplicative thinking.

    The key characteristic to keep an eye out for:

    the point of reference….is it the unit or the other quantity

    • Kyle Pearce

      Administrator
      December 20, 2020 at 7:41 am

      Love your key to watch out for. Definitely helpful as people look to notice and name additive and multiplicative thinking!

  • Merryl Polak

    Member
    January 28, 2021 at 11:42 am

    That was a fun game to play. I can see it taking off, “Additive or Multiplicative?” Great Jeopardy topic too.

    My take is that additive is really in terms of how much greater or fewer, while multiplicative is more about the relationship of a quantity that one has on another and watching it change in proportion over time. Additive does not need to change in proportion.

    • Kyle Pearce

      Administrator
      January 29, 2021 at 6:51 am

      Great way of thinking about it. It certainly brings back the absolute vs relative change discussion from module 1.

  • Robin Bergen

    Member
    April 11, 2021 at 6:49 am

    When comparing two quantities you are using multiplicative thinking or relative thinking. When adding or subtracting one quantity from another you are using additive or absolute thinking.

  • Anne Sheeter

    Member
    September 30, 2021 at 11:10 pm

    using the earlier example in unit 1 about the $100 that became $400 and the $1000 that became $1500, in additive or absolute thinking the first earned $400 and the second earned $500. In multiplicative thinking the first earned four times as much as it started with (or 400%) while the second earned 1 1/2 times what it started as or 150%. Also you are risking 1/10 less in the first scenario which is also multiplicative thinking

    • Kyle Pearce

      Administrator
      October 1, 2021 at 6:50 am

      Nice reflection and summary! When dealing in money, we tend to flip flop additively and multiplicatively without even realizing it. Hopefully these activities help you better notice and name these types of thinking in action! 🙂

  • Diane Hamilton

    Member
    November 11, 2021 at 9:40 pm

    The difference between additive and multiplicative thinking is clear to me, but I have not really highlighted it with my students. I’m excited to have conversations with them about how we are thinking differently, not just using a different operation, when we solve problems multiplicatively. And yes, many students are stuck in additive thinking. It seems to me that they don’t trust multiplicative thinking, it is a leap of faith they aren’t willing to risk (for fear of the dreaded MISTAKE). I’m excited to learn more about how we bridge or scaffold kids over the multiplicative thinking.

    • Kyle Pearce

      Administrator
      November 12, 2021 at 6:47 am

      Trust is a great way to put it. When we aren’t flexible with our number and operation sense, we don’t trust the mathematics. Helping students by using math talks and keeping the calculator to the side is so critical for students to develop this fundamental number sense.

  • Amy Johnson

    Member
    November 23, 2021 at 5:51 pm

    Having read Diane Hamilton’s reflection, I too, love her analogy of trust. Maybe when we have made students take timed fluency tests is when we have broke trust as their teacher. Anxiety builds because they haven’t had enough experiences to trust their knowledge of the facts. I know that they say the mother bird pushes her baby out of the nest to fly but only when the bird is ready to test its feathers.

    So I am thinking another way to think of additive or absolute thinking is you can hear the counting….3 more. Multiplicative or relative you aren’t sure if one is counting or giving a ball-park estimate…”about” 3 times as many. I never thought about multiplication being a big enough jump to trust the mathematics.

  • Merrillee Reboullet

    Member
    November 27, 2021 at 6:46 pm

    Additive thinking using absolute values compares using the ideas of more or less and stating the difference or the total in a specific value. Multiplicative thinking uses relationships and proportions between two or more objects.

  • Lavon Heath

    Member
    November 28, 2021 at 2:30 pm

    Absolute thinking uses terminology of “more than/less than.” It’s additive thinking where we are looking for differences of a single unit.

    With relative thinking we are evaluating one object in terms of another. I will hear students talking about about “groups of” or “times.” It’s multiplicative thinking. They might still be counting on their fingers, but each finger would represent a multiple rather than an individual number.

  • Kristin Snell

    Member
    November 30, 2021 at 11:58 pm

    Absolute thinking is counting off the difference or sum, while relative thinking is utilizing the patterns of multiplication and division to describe the relationship.

    When students are using key words like more than/less than they are still thinking additively, while using words like times bigger would indicate relative thinking.

  • Luke Albrecht

    Member
    January 7, 2022 at 4:33 pm

    Relative has a relation to one of the quantities as the “unit”. Then it is multiplied. The absolute is additive and seems to usually use a indirect unit.

    • Kyle Pearce

      Administrator
      January 10, 2022 at 7:18 am

      Would love to hear more about your thinking around an “indirect unit”.