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Make Math Moments Academy Forums Mini-Course Reflections Assessment For Growth Lesson 4.3: Where Do Formal/Traditional Forms of Evaluation Fit In? – Discussion

  • Lesson 4.3: Where Do Formal/Traditional Forms of Evaluation Fit In? – Discussion

    Posted by Jon on February 9, 2021 at 12:19 pm

    What new take-aways do you have?

    What questions are you still wondering?

    Share your thinking below…”

    Stephanie Pritchett replied 6 months ago 13 Members · 17 Replies
  • 17 Replies
  • Christopher Ernst

    April 5, 2021 at 6:42 pm

    I’m absolutely going to be using the more common quizzes and having students recall old learning to help strengthen their recall. I also love the idea of having quizzes be short so that I can give meaningful feedback to students, rather than feel like I’m drowning in quizzes to grade.

    Reliability is a huge issue at my school and in my district, especially during online learning. I love the idea of videos and audio files as submissions. I’m wondering when you offer students the ability to not submit audio or video responses, how can we be sure it’s them? I’m thinking in my district photomath and their explanations are rampant from an early age and for myself in 9th grade. Students that are using these fall apart with more conceptual or understanding questions. How can I incorporate procedural and understanding questions while maintaining reliability, especially in an online environment?

    • Jon

      April 6, 2021 at 6:36 am

      @ErnstCD This is why it’s super important to get to know your students and to take a variety of forms of evidence. You have to feel comfortable knowing it’s their work. If we’re working online there’s no real way of knowing it’s their thinking unless you hear it or have worked closely with that student on past work that there’s no question that the thinking they’re showing you is their thinking.

  • Diane Fortune

    May 22, 2021 at 3:48 pm

    What I’ve done in the past is grade based on progress towards standard. In one district I was in, we had developed a 4 point system based on this … it was difficult for all of us at first, but I really felt it worked well as the year progressed.

    • Kyle Pearce

      May 24, 2021 at 7:59 am

      Great to hear! Using a continuum like rubric can be helpful which gives more opportunity for highlighting progress as students work towards achieving the goal/standard.

  • Michael Wynott

    June 2, 2021 at 7:22 pm

    Quick question @kyle . When it comes to learning goals and SBG, do you ever decrease student grades on a learning goal over time. Since learning is an ongoing process, how do you account for a decrease in student performance on a learning goal in the gradebook? I figured if we want to give students credit for mastering a learning goal later in the semester, the same logic could be used if they show evidence of no longer mastering an earlier learning goal.

    • Kyle Pearce

      June 3, 2021 at 7:14 am

      Hi @michael.wynott!
      This is a great question and one many educators wonder.
      There is no “right” answer here, but I found that when students did seem to lose some of that understanding I feel there needs to be something there to help the student see that it is time to circle back. This can often happen due to the time since it was explored (learning loss) or maybe even because initially they were relying on familiarity over real understanding/learning.
      Each year I would adjust my approach to improve, but ultimately I would adjust down the grade (using whatever scale you choose) plus have an indicator like colour to highlight that they HAD shown a deeper understanding but now that has changed a bit.
      Of course finding the balance between adjusting the mark down vs penalizing can be a challenge and requires much thought. You don’t want to discourage or make students feel like hard work is “taken away” so be cautious.
      I would also intentionally try to draw in that topic into an upcoming lesson if I felt that most students had struggles with an idea weeks or months after we last explored it.
      What is your current thinking around this?

      • Michael Wynott

        June 3, 2021 at 5:04 pm

        I completely agree. This approach makes complete sense to me and seems like a fair way to grade students. I’m new to standard based grading and a lot of these assessment/grading techniques, so I wanted to make sure I wasn’t penalizing students. It seems like a great opportunity for students to make deeper connections on earlier learning goals. Hopefully a strong classroom culture will get students to value this process. Thanks @kyle and @jon for all the information and resources you provide to us math teachers!

    • Jon

      June 3, 2021 at 7:15 am

      Hi there @michael.wynott — yes! The goal is that the grade on a learning goal should be accurate. If they’ve shown over time that they are not proficient on a learning goal then that grade changes. I like to track all of those changes to see that history. You’ll see how we use portfolios to capture this.

  • Jamie BALLARD

    July 26, 2021 at 10:55 am

    Biggest takeaway: Making It Stick and the retrieval process. I have studied this and use it in class to help students understand how the brain works and how they can strengthen neural pathways through retrieval. It is a pretty easy sell, since everyone knows that math builds on itself. Students want to be able to recall next year.

    I also have this analogy running through my mind about your Super Mario Brothers example that goes along with retrieval practices. I remember playing game this with different objectives. First, I tried to just finish the course as fast as possible without getting any stars. I see students doing this when they do as little as possible to earn the grade that is expected of them on a learning target. However, since math builds on itself, when that topic is needed later in their math journey, they essentially need to go back to that level to retrieve the stars. In other words, they need to revisit and retrieve that learning at a deeper level. You have to understand and explore levels in Mario to find those stars.

    To strengthen this analogy, I am trying to name the stars: connection to previous learning, conceptual understanding, and contextual understanding???

    Thinking about quadratics. In our system, students learn how to graph and solve using simple factoring and quadratic formula during Algebra 1. Then in Algebra 2, we learn more complicated factoring and completing the square, along with finding all solutions – real and imaginary. Students that “rushed” through Algebra 1 quadratics with no stars, will struggle building on their understanding of quadratics in algebra 2. In other words, students who take their time to play and investigate the learning target by “capturing stars” will be able to readily open more “doors” in the future learning journey.

    Does that make sense? I am trying to create a story line to build more buy in for students and parents of why we are not just teaching procedures with the traditional I do, we do, you do method.

    • Daniel Whittaker

      July 27, 2021 at 3:03 am

      I really like that analogy! If you aren’t hunting down all the stars, you will be at a disadvantage on later levels!

  • Jeanette Jones

    August 27, 2021 at 7:42 pm

    Love the thoughts behind weekly quizzes. More opportunities to show understanding. More opportunities to bring in concepts from the past.

  • Terry Hill

    June 21, 2022 at 11:17 pm

    I really like the idea of having to show more learning before taking a re-test. I have tried to incorporate this in the past, but it was not very successful. It seemed the only students who were willing to do the extra work to be able to take the re-test were the students who were trying to go from a B to an A. But maybe by using a portfolio it will cause more students to be willing to take that personal responsibility.

  • Jacqueline Joseph

    June 22, 2022 at 5:22 pm

    I have used the retake process for several years but have some qualifications for students to participate. They have to complete all practice and complete test corrections first. Most still do play the point-gathering game and will retake only if they need the points to get to a particular score. I have experimented with reviewing tests as a class and alternatively posted solution videos to save some class time. There are drawbacks to both methods. I am really interested in the weekly quizzes as a source of additional data to support marks, build in retakes into regular class time and to build in spiral review.

    • Kyle Pearce

      June 23, 2022 at 6:38 am

      Trying not to make it about point is so key. Making it about learning is the main goal. I don’t want them blindly doing something just to get that point, but don’t want to discourage them from trying either. Finding the balance will be key.

  • Dawn Stout

    July 19, 2022 at 3:32 pm

    I love the idea of a weekly quiz. We have been using weekly reviews for a long time for spiral review. They get them on Friday and the idea is to hand in on Tuesday for a first check and then can keep getting checked until Friday with the goal of getting a 10/10. I have been wanting to revamp this practice for awhile, as many kids don’t seem to take it seriously and do what they can to just get it done without thinking about the math…… so, what if the weekly quiz including review as well as current learning targets? What are your thoughts on this?

  • Callie Smith

    July 22, 2022 at 5:31 pm

    I am glad that quizzes and tests are not thrown out, since they are good indicators of learning. I love more that they are more evidence — not the end-all, be-all.

    I like what @jamie-ballard said about the different levels and the depth of understanding. It seems to create a sense of dwelling on something long enough to actually learn it… which really is the purpose of all of this , right?

    I’ll be teaching grade 6 all the way up to seniors this year, so I’m so thankful for this session’s time to talk about the different approaches. It definitely reassured me that I’m not crazy for thinking there has to be some differentiation happening here.

  • Stephanie Pritchett

    July 26, 2022 at 11:37 am

    I’m happy you addressed reliability and accuracy. This was a concern of mine that students might not go about using the portfolio in a way that will help them but have intentions to get a better grade. This is something I want to address.

    I teach special education students in a resource class. I really like the practice having weekly quizzes. My students already have trouble with retrieving. In the past I gave them longer unit tests and I dreaded giving it to them and grading them. If I keep the quizzes short that would be hopefully be a quick way to give them feedback and get it back to them. It’s also good frequent data along with observation and conversation.