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Make Math Moments Academy Forums Mini-Course Reflections The Concept Holding Your Students Back Lesson 2 – Building A Continuum Of Measurement – Discussion

  • Lesson 2 – Building A Continuum Of Measurement – Discussion

    Posted by Jon on December 6, 2019 at 5:27 am

    Select two (2) quantities that you can compare and/or measure.

    Share how you might compare and measure at each stage along the continuum from direct comparison, to indirect comparison, to direct measurement, and finally indirect measurement.

    Consider using an example that is relevant to a grade or course that you teach.

    Share your reflection below along with any wonders you still have.

    Luke Albrecht replied 8 months, 3 weeks ago 23 Members · 29 Replies
  • 29 Replies
  • marianne aamodt

    Member
    July 14, 2020 at 8:58 pm

    I used the Math Learning Center apps and copied and pasted into my reply. Sadly the fraction strips I used did not show up when i submitted my reply so I edited with no pictures. (BTW it’d be really great if you could create a “redo” button for the replies. Sometimes, I accidentally delete stuff and have to retype it!)

    Gr. 7 question:

    5/8 – 1/2

    Direct comparison: Place 2 fraction strips, of the same length, showing 1/2 and 5/8 side by side. Notice which strip’s coloured spaces is longer.

    Indirect comparison: hmmm… I didn’t know what to put here. I played with pattern blocks – which don’t work at all as they do not have “eighths” – and number lines.

    direct measurement : Place the strips over top of each other . Note that 5/8 is an 1/8 bigger than 1/2

    Indirect measurement; we can see that 1/2 = 4/8 so…

    5/8 – 1/2 = ____

    5/8 – 4/8 = 1/8

    This process was much more difficult than I anticipated. Thanks for taking me out of my comfort zone. I am sure the synapses in my brain are firing like crazy. Hope they are creating a pathway for all my new learning!!

    But seriously, what should I use for the indirect comparison?

  • Vanessa Cherney

    Member
    September 24, 2020 at 8:32 pm

    Here is my example. I hope I’ve got the right idea!

  • Lauren Teather

    Member
    September 30, 2020 at 9:55 pm

    This is pretty challenging … a grade 6 example might be ordering numbers on a number line. I originally thought of negative numbers, but that got a bit too challenging for me —

    So I’l start with just simply comparing 2 fractions, say 4/5 and 2/3

    Direct comparison – looking at visual models of the fractions (bar models) to determine which is bigger

    Indirect comparison – using something like a strip of paper or a string to measure the length of each fraction and then compare those strips (??? not sure about this one)

    Direct measure – using unifix cubes to build equivalent models of the fractions (dividing into the same number of parts – 15) and then count the cubes to compare those quantities

    Indirect measure – creating fractions that have common denominators and then comparing numerators


    This does seem pretty complicated but there are some deep understandings that could be uncovered and critical connections to be made through this type of representation.

    • Christina Michaels

      Member
      October 8, 2020 at 2:08 pm

      This is a great example, and such a great way to be able to see where kids are at on the continuum!

    • Kyle Pearce

      Administrator
      October 15, 2020 at 6:32 am

      I’d say more complex than complicated. The complexity is difficult to avoid, but complication is when we add unnecessary “stuff”. Math is filled with complexity and we often add complications through tricks, memorization and otherwise.

      The hard part is determining what parts are important for both the teacher and student to understand vs what is more just for the teacher to help them plan and deliver an effective lesson?

  • Heidi Peterson

    Member
    October 11, 2020 at 9:00 am

    So I was thinking about the area of a circle (7th grade – and definitely building/stealing from the pizza example).

    Direct Comparison – Placing circles over each other.

    Indirect Comparison – Placing square tiles on the circles

    Direct measurement – “Cutting up” circles to make rectangles

    Indirect measurement – using the formula to find the area

    • Kyle Pearce

      Administrator
      October 15, 2020 at 6:30 am

      Great example here!

  • Jeanette Cox

    Member
    October 17, 2020 at 3:23 pm

    Piggybacking off of Heidi’s example is this one for volume. This comes from Lessonresearch.net

    Direct Comparison: Which bottle holds more?

    Indirect Comparison: Pour liquid into one bottle then pour contents of that bottle into the opposite one to see whether it overflows and in that case the first bottle holds more; or if there is still room in the bottle than that bottle holds more.Indirect Measure: Use a smaller cup and fill it and count the number of cups that each container holds. Container a holds 4 cups while container b hold 3.5 cups.

    Direct Measure: Volume of a liter is equal to a 10 x 10 x 10 cm cube.

  • Chris Laurie

    Member
    October 20, 2020 at 9:48 am

    Wow, I read the teachers ideas.

    However, many saw a need to go many steps beyond the rectangle indirectly measured with squares. Triangles? comparing two rhombus?? Wow that is rocket science! Then liquid measures. How abstract?? As teachers, I think we needlessly complicate instruction. We need to show more empathy (get into the sneakers of our less developed students).

    The most important idea I heard was: TRUST.

    Students need time and experience to develop TRUST. Educators are in such a hurry to ‘cover concepts’ and get to the next topic. These lessons have impressed upon me the need to build foundational skills through play (is only). Civil engineers advocate for a sound foundation before proceeding with any construction.

    Educators need to chill. My greatest thrill is watching student light bulbs lite as they grasp new concepts or express themselves in new ways.

    “Be Calm and PLAY On.”

    • Kyle Pearce

      Administrator
      October 22, 2020 at 4:55 pm

      Great take away here. We all need to “chill” and really try to better understand what next step that would benefit each individual student. Easier said than done, of course!

  • Christine McLaughlin

    Member
    October 21, 2020 at 10:50 pm

    Grade 4: Place Value

    1,234 and 12,345

    Direct comparison: use counters to compare each place

    Indirect comparison: use tens-blocks on a place value chart

    Direct measurement: Placing the numbers vertically to compare

    Indirect comparison: I’m not sure…can anyone help?

    • Krista-Lynne Edwards

      Member
      October 26, 2020 at 9:47 pm

      Christine, I think your indirect measurement might be that students are just able to identify the larger number based on their understanding they have built.

  • Nicole Jackson

    Member
    October 26, 2020 at 12:08 pm

    Christine, I like this example.

    If I can suggest:

    using base ten blocks in place of counters for the representation of such large numbers.

    using number bars for direct measurement.

    and (maybe) number lines for an indirect measurement.

    The use of the place value chart (the exterior object) to compare the two numbers is a great choice for indirect comparison.

  • Krista-Lynne Edwards

    Member
    October 26, 2020 at 9:54 pm

    I think it would be neat to play with volume but more challenging of using a rectangular prism vs a cylinder to see which one could hold more

    direct comparison- comparing the two forms through visual inspection (like height)

    indirect comparison-filling both forms with another object (like the popcorn challenge)

    direct measurement-measuring lengths, heights and areas

    rectangular prism: measure height, width and length need for calculations of area of base times the height

    cylinder: measure circumference, diameter, and height need for calculations of area of the base times the height

    indirect measurement-give measurements and calculate using the formulas.

    • Aaron Davis

      Member
      November 1, 2020 at 6:34 am

      I was thinking about this example too. Working with really young learners, especially kindergartners, they just like to fill things up. Providing them with a challenge of comparing the capacity of two objects can lead them through the measurement continuum. Using candy would be even more engaging for them.

      With kindergartners, even with first graders, is it even necessary to move them to the indirect measurement stage yet? The whole idea of trust really resonated with me during this lesson and I just don’t think our really young learners have a lot of trust in us yet if we were to just give them measurement attributes. I think developmentally, they would just ignore the given attributes, and find out for themselves, using whatever external measurement objects we make available for them.

      • Krista-Lynne Edwards

        Member
        November 1, 2020 at 11:42 pm

        Aaron,

        I would agree that kindergarten student wouldn’t need to enter the indirect measurement stage at this time. I think they should be building understanding through play and inquiry which will help them when the curriculum expects them to build on that understanding.

  • Brent Sturtevant

    Member
    October 31, 2020 at 2:09 pm

    With it being Halloween season I thought of how we could use candy for such an assignment. For example, I could get to big chocolate bars – one that is square and one that is a rectangle. Then ask which one is bigger and how could we find out. Instead of using tiles, we could use Starbursts as they are the shape of a tile. I feel using these resources would get them more excited and enjoying lesson.

  • Rajwant Cheema

    Member
    November 26, 2020 at 9:07 pm

    Compare 60 miles in 2 hours, 45 miles in 3 hours

    Direct comparison

    Each bar represents an hour

    60 miles in 2 hours

    45 miles in 3 hours

    Indirect comparison

    Giving students base ten blocks and one blocks to place 60 and 45 equally on hour bars

    Direct Measurement

    Counting each block unit for hour in both scenarios

    Indirect Measurement

    Figuring out the unit value by dividing distance by time for mile/hour in each

    Sorry, my bars did not show up. Please feel free to give me any feedback. Thanks

  • John Sasko

    Member
    November 30, 2020 at 9:56 am

    I will compare four-sixths and five-eighths. (based on same whole!)

    Direct comparison – place the fraction strips or cuisenaire rods representing each on top of each other and visualize which is more/greater/longer.

    Indirect comparison – I might use a one-half strip or cuisenaire rod and compare each one to the one-half piece.

    Indirect measurement – create equivalent fractions for each one.

    Thinking about where on continuum this reasoning would be: compare each mentally to benchmark of one-half. Four-sixths is one-sixth more than three-sixths (or one-half). Five-eighths is one-eighth more than four-eighths (or one-half). Therefore, four-sixths is larger because the one-sixth more than one-half is larger than one-eighth more than one-half because one-sixth is longer than one-eighth (of same whole). Is this indirect comparison because I am using the benchmark one-half to do this reasoning?

    • Kyle Pearce

      Administrator
      December 1, 2020 at 6:42 am

      Great wonder and I think you’d be right. I can see why one might think indirect measurement, but it would seem that the 1 half “measure” is simply another unit to indirectly compare to.

      Great reflection here. It is clear that you’re doing a great job making sense of these ideas with reflections like this one!

  • Robin Bergen

    Member
    April 5, 2021 at 11:21 am

    Which one is bigger? (whatever the objects are…)

    direct comparison- using one object of the two to measure the second

    indirect comparison- using other objects that we have handy to measure both and compare.

    direct measurement- cutting up one object to make a unit

    indirect measurement- using formula to find the area and compare.

  • Anne Sheeter

    Member
    September 22, 2021 at 11:23 pm

    Compare round hay bales to rectangular ones for volume. For direct comparison set them side by side and eyeball them. A tarp laid over each bale and marked for size might work for indirect comparison though this is surface area so I’m not sure it works. I don’t have a good thought on this one. Direct measurement might involve baling twine to compare length, height and width/diameter of the bales. indirect measurement would involve using the formulas and actual measures.

  • Merrillee Reboullet

    Member
    October 22, 2021 at 10:20 am

    In an upcoming task with my students, I’m asking them to explore measurement of length as well as mass. I took pictures all along the harvesting of my carrots this year and I have created various explorations involving estimation of lengths of the carrots as well as ultimately calculating how many kilos of carrots we harvested.

    For the measurement of the length, first students will compare relative lengths of different carrots and estimate what they believe will be the length of all the carrots lined up in a row.

    Eventually they will have the measurement of one of the carrots provided to help them zero in on their estimations. I am providing linking cubes and other measurement aids to help them physically map it out.

    Once they have an idea of how long the carrots would be end to end, then they will need to compare the length of that row to the length of one of the walls of the classroom. In this exploration, I am leaving it up to them to decide how to compare this as I actually am curious to see whose thinking land where on the continuum of these comparison types.

    My challenge will be to not lead too much, but give just the right nudges to prompt their thinking about measurement to change. Of course the challenge with this task is that not all carrots are the same length, so this task will not have predictable/constant measurements, although they will be able to use their linking blocks as somewhat of a standard measure.

    Later we will determine the average weight of a bag of carrots and based on that, as well as the number of bags (conveniently stowed away in milk crates), students should be able to calculate the approximate number of kilos of carrots. Here I am struggling a little bit with how to bring the direct and indirect comparisons into play, so I may actually bring some bags of carrots in with me, but I’m also thinking of substituting other objects that would be about the same weight to help students gain a better idea of what grams, kilograms etc are about. Or experimenting with packing a similarly filled bags into crates to simulate the situation.

    If anyone has an idea of how to help the students make the leap, I would welcome any insights you’d like to offer. :).

  • Lavon Heath

    Member
    October 30, 2021 at 4:47 pm

    It blew my mind the first time I saw a physical model of the Pythagorean Theorem with the squares made from each side being placed over the square made from the hypotenuse. I had spent years using the Pythagorean Theorem without really understanding what it meant. The visual model is so powerful! It’s so important not to rush over that!

    So direct comparison— placing the squares from the sides over the square from the hypotenuse to compare their equality.

    Indirect comparison— placing cubes from each square onto the hypotenuse square to show that they are equal.

    Direct measurement— maybe cutting up the area of the 2 squares and placing these parts over the hypotenuse square.

    Indirect measurement— using a ruler to measure and find area or actually giving each side of the right triangle a numeric length.

    • Kyle Pearce

      Administrator
      November 1, 2021 at 6:15 am

      I too taught Pythagorean for years without really understanding the visual / physical relationship. How powerful of a tool to be hidden from the forefront!

      Thanks for sharing your summary of the progression of measurement.

  • Kristin Snell

    Member
    November 4, 2021 at 11:06 pm

    Comparing angles

    Direct comparison: looking at a pair of angles and trying to decide which one is bigger/smaller; putting one angle on top of the other

    Indirect comparison: I wonder if using string to overlay each angle will tell anything? I must try this.

    Direct measurement: using a protractor

    Indirect measurement: figuring out if they would be supplementary or complementary through measuring

    I’m not sure on all of these… it’s food for thought. I was trying to come up with something different than what was already done.

  • Amy Johnson

    Member
    November 20, 2021 at 1:13 pm

    I was wondering about comparing a triangle to a rectangle. In sixth grade they are to learn about the formula for the area of a triangle. I remember in school I never could remember what those formulas were, especially a trapezoid’s. But now that I have had to teach it to my students more visually than I ever learned with I can’t not remember because I see the picture in my head.

    Right Isosceles Triangle and Rectangle

    Direct comparison would be to place one on top of the other.

    Indirect comparison would be to iterate tiles on both

    Direct Measurement would be to get a count of tiles- figure out how to count the cut tiles

    Indirect Measurement would be to make calculations to find the missing measurement.

    I would think doing this with various quadrilaterals would be beneficial before the triangle now that I have thought this example through.

  • Luke Albrecht

    Member
    January 7, 2022 at 12:51 pm

    In the past, I have done a similar comparison of 2 small pizzas vs 1 large as in the last lesson. I jumped right to measuring diameters and then also did a cost break down–if a square inch of pizza is about one bite, how much was it costing per bite of pizza? I also have decomposed circles to show how the area formula can be derived from a decomposed circle shaped into a parallelogram. I would really like to combine these two as we saw in the last lesson.